Hasan Piker's claim that the United States commits more terrorism than al-Qaeda
Hasan Piker told Axios the United States has caused more terrorism than al-Qaeda "pound for pound as far as the number of deaths." Abdul El-Sayed, whom Piker backed in Michigan's primary, rejected the comparison. Is the comparison defensible?
Case period:
Published by The Dispute Index editorial teamPublished Updated
Overview
Piker's answer came in response to a direct question from Axios about whether America commits more terrorism than the organization behind the September 11 attacks. In the same interview he cited a U.S. missile strike that hit an elementary school in Minab, Iran, saying "if you're killing 140 schoolgirls, that is an act of terror," while adding that this "doesn't mean that all Americans are terrorists."
The strike itself is well evidenced. The Associated Press found evidence that at least one U.S. missile struck the school, Bellingcat geolocated video that munitions experts identify as a Tomahawk, Amnesty International concluded the United States was responsible, and on September 17 a United Nations fact-finding mission said it had reasonable grounds to believe the United States carried out the strike and that this amounted to the war crime of launching indiscriminate attacks. A finding of reasonable grounds is not a determination of guilt. The Trump administration has denied responsibility and has not released the findings of a Pentagon review.
Piker's figure of 140 schoolgirls matches no published count. No official death toll exists; reported tolls range from about 150 to 175 people killed in total, and breakdowns published in Iran record boys, teachers and parents among the dead alongside girls. Sources also conflict on whether the school was girls-only. The underlying point that a U.S. strike killed a large number of schoolchildren is supported; the specific figure and its composition are not.
Piker also addressed his 2019 remark that "America deserved 9/11," for which he has apologised and which he has described as blowback from decades of U.S. involvement in the Middle East. He told Axios "this doesn't justify the action, mind you," describing the point as analysis intended to prevent further violence. This dossier records that characterisation as his, not as a finding about his earlier remark.
Axios framed the interview's significance through the Michigan Senate race, where Piker campaigned for Abdul El-Sayed in the Democratic primary and where, according to AdImpact data reported by Axios, Republican-aligned groups have spent nearly $3 million on advertising targeting El-Sayed over the association. El-Sayed's rejection of the comparison is recorded here; the separate dispute over whether Mike Rogers's 9/11 accusation against El-Sayed is fair is covered in its own dossier.
People in this case
Hasan PikerDirectly involved
Debbie DingellCommented
Timeline
4 timeline entries on this page. Dates: September 17, 2026
September 2026
4 events
UN fact-finding mission reports on the Minab school strike Piker cites
Source release
On the same day as the interview, the United Nations fact-finding mission on Iran reported that it had reasonable grounds to believe the United States carried out the two-tap strike on the Shajareh Tayyebeh school in Minab and that this constituted the war crime of launching indiscriminate attacks. The strike is the example Piker gives as the basis for his comparison. A finding of reasonable grounds is not a determination of guilt, the Pentagon has not released its own review, and no official death toll exists.
[01]NPR: UN fact-finding mission on alleged US war crimes in the Iran war
Source excerpt
the mission found reasonable grounds to believe the United States committed the war crime of launching indiscriminate attacks resulting in the loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects
Report of the United Nations fact-finding mission on Iran, published 17 September 2026, the same day as Piker's interview. It bears directly on the strike he cites as the basis for his comparison, finding reasonable grounds to believe the United States conducted the two-tap strike on the Minab school and that this constituted a war crime. A finding of reasonable grounds is not a legal determination of guilt. The Pentagon has not released the findings of its own administrative review and no official death toll exists; reported tolls range from about 150 to 175 dead, and breakdowns published by Iranian outlets include boys, teachers and parents as well as girls.
NPR: UN fact-finding mission on alleged US war crimes in the Iran warFinding on the Minab school strikeAxios publishes the interview in which Piker says the U.S. is worse than al-Qaeda
Incident
Axios published a teaser clip and accompanying article from Alex Thompson's interview with Hasan Piker for "The Axios Show," recorded in Los Angeles. Asked whether America commits more terrorism than the organization behind the September 11 attacks, Piker answered "Pound for pound as far as the number of deaths, yes," and said the United States has "caused tremendous terror all around the world." He cited a U.S. missile strike on an elementary school in Minab, Iran, said that killing 140 schoolgirls is an act of terror while adding that this does not make all Americans terrorists, and described his earlier remarks on the September 11 attacks as blowback analysis that "doesn't justify the action." The casualty figure is his.
[02]Axios: "Hasan Piker on 'The Axios Show': America worse than al-Qaeda 'pound for pound'"
Source excerpt
Pound for pound as far as the number of deaths, yes.
Axios write-up of an exclusive interview with Hasan Piker for a new episode of "The Axios Show," datelined Los Angeles and published September 17, 2026. Asked whether America commits more terrorism than the organization behind the September 11 attacks, Piker answered "Pound for pound as far as the number of deaths, yes" and added "We have caused tremendous terror all around the world." The piece's "why it matters" section ties the remarks to Republican attacks in the Michigan Senate race after Democratic nominee Abdul El-Sayed had Piker campaign for him in the primary. The published article is brief; fuller quotation from the same interview is carried in TheWrap's report.
[03]TheWrap: "Hasan Piker Stands by Calling America the 'Top Dog in Terrorism' in Contentious Interview"
Source excerpt
I do not agree with this statement, nor do I give much weight to the statements made by a social media streamer.
TheWrap report of September 17, 2026 carrying fuller quotation from Piker's Axios interview than the Axios article itself, including his citation of a U.S. missile strike on an elementary school in Minab, Iran, and his statement that the analysis "doesn't justify" the September 11 attacks. It also carries Abdul El-Sayed's full statement to Axios rejecting the comparison, and his separate Fox 2 Detroit debate remarks of September 15 on why he engages with Piker. It notes the Associated Press found evidence at least one U.S. missile struck the school, that the Trump administration has not released the Pentagon investigation's findings, and that the death toll remains unknown; the 140 figure is Piker's.
El-Sayed rejects the comparison in a statement to Axios
Reaction
Abdul El-Sayed, the Democratic Senate nominee in Michigan for whom Piker campaigned during the primary, told Axios he did not agree with the statement and did not give much weight to statements made by a social media streamer, redirecting to what he called the dangerous policies of Donald Trump and Mike Rogers on the cost of gas, groceries and health care in Michigan.
[03]TheWrap: "Hasan Piker Stands by Calling America the 'Top Dog in Terrorism' in Contentious Interview"
Source excerpt
I do not agree with this statement, nor do I give much weight to the statements made by a social media streamer.
TheWrap report of September 17, 2026 carrying fuller quotation from Piker's Axios interview than the Axios article itself, including his citation of a U.S. missile strike on an elementary school in Minab, Iran, and his statement that the analysis "doesn't justify" the September 11 attacks. It also carries Abdul El-Sayed's full statement to Axios rejecting the comparison, and his separate Fox 2 Detroit debate remarks of September 15 on why he engages with Piker. It notes the Associated Press found evidence at least one U.S. missile struck the school, that the Trump administration has not released the Pentagon investigation's findings, and that the death toll remains unknown; the 140 figure is Piker's.
Piker accuses Axios of clickbaiting a nuanced answer
Claim
Responding on X to the teaser clip, Piker accused Axios of "farming the interview" and turning what he called a nuanced answer about acts of terror into clickbait. He did not withdraw the comparison, restating the substance by citing U.S. arming of al-Qaeda since the September 11 attacks and saying a former al-Qaeda commander became president of Syria. Those historical characterisations are his own.
[04]Hasan Piker says Axios "clickbaited" his answer
Source excerpt
i give a nuanced answer about acts of terror this admin has caused and they clickbait it.
First-party post from Hasan Piker's verified X account, posted September 17, 2026 in reply to the teaser clip Axios published from his interview on "The Axios Show." He accuses Axios of "farming the interview" and turning a nuanced answer into clickbait, and restates the substance by citing U.S. arming of al-Qaeda since 9/11 and the former commander who became president of Syria. Those historical characterisations are his. Fox News's "Outnumbered" quoted the post the same day.
Response record
Responses
Latest recorded positions: 9. Dates: September 17, 2026
Choose one response filter, or select All responses to see the full record.
1 response on this page
Debbie Dingell"I'm so sick of talking about Hasan Piker and I want Hasan Piker to go away. I don't know why he had to do that interview. … The bombing of the school in Iran was horrific. We shouldn't be in the war in Iran. … This election is about Abdul El-Sayed, not Hasan Piker. … If he wants to see Abdul El-Sayed elected, stop going on television. Abdul has got to make it clear that he does not agree with the things that he has said."
Open the original interview (opens in a new tab)CNN: "'I want Hasan Piker to go away!': Michigan congresswoman voices frustration after left-wing streamer's recent interview"2:02 clip. 00:06–00:41: the Axios exchange played back, including Alex Thompson's question and Piker's answer; 00:43–01:00: CNN reports El-Sayed told Manu Raju before the clip published that he would not campaign with Piker in the general election, and asks whether he needs to do more to distance himself; 01:02–01:58: Rep. Debbie Dingell's answer.Mixed or conditionalCase context: Hasan Piker's claim that the United States commits more terrorism than al-Qaeda
Why this label?
This dossier's fixed reference point is Piker's claim that the United States commits more terrorism than al-Qaeda. Dingell combines materially different responses to it. She endorses part of the basis he gave — that the Iran school strike was horrific and that the United States should not be in that war — while declining to accept the comparison itself and rejecting his positions on Israel and on women, and she presses El-Sayed to disavow him. The closest competing label is explicitly_declines, given her repeated wish that everyone stop talking about Piker; it loses because she engages with the substance before redirecting, and the guidance is to evaluate the answer given rather than the closing redirect. condemns also loses, because she never rejects the comparison on the merits.
This label describes the statement’s response within the context above.
Read context and background
Asked on CNN whether Abdul El-Sayed needed to do more to distance himself from Hasan Piker after the Axios interview, Michigan Rep. Debbie Dingell said she was sick of talking about Piker and wanted him to go away, and questioned why he gave the interview. She agreed with part of what he said, calling the bombing of the school in Iran horrific and saying the United States should not be in the war in Iran, while distancing herself from his other positions: she said Israel has a right to exist and called things he has said about women horrific. She said the election is about El-Sayed rather than Piker, urged Piker to stop going on television if he wants El-Sayed elected, and said El-Sayed must make clear he does not agree with what Piker has said.
Role at the time: U.S. Representative for Michigan's 6th congressional district, interviewed on CNN
Before the statement
CNN played the Axios exchange, including Alex Thompson's question and Piker's "pound for pound" answer, then reported that El-Sayed had told CNN's Manu Raju, before the clip published, that he would not campaign with Piker in the general election, having campaigned with him in the primary. The interviewer asked whether El-Sayed needed to do more to distance himself.
After the statement
Dingell closed by saying she wished everybody would stop talking about Piker so the conversation could turn to what she called the issues at stake in November, giving access to a doctor when sick as her example. The interviewer responded that he sensed her frustration.
CNN: "'I want Hasan Piker to go away!': Michigan congresswoman voices frustration after left-wing streamer's recent interview"2:02 clip. 00:06–00:41: the Axios exchange played back, including Alex Thompson's question and Piker's answer; 00:43–01:00: CNN reports El-Sayed told Manu Raju before the clip published that he would not campaign with Piker in the general election, and asks whether he needs to do more to distance himself; 01:02–01:58: Rep. Debbie Dingell's answer.
Sources
(9)
Interview
Axios: "Hasan Piker on 'The Axios Show': America worse than al-Qaeda 'pound for pound'"
Excerpt
"Pound for pound as far as the number of deaths, yes."
About this source
Axios write-up of an exclusive interview with Hasan Piker for a new episode of "The Axios Show," datelined Los Angeles and published September 17, 2026. Asked whether America commits more terrorism than the organization behind the September 11 attacks, Piker answered "Pound for pound as far as the number of deaths, yes" and added "We have caused tremendous terror all around the world." The piece's "why it matters" section ties the remarks to Republican attacks in the Michigan Senate race after Democratic nominee Abdul El-Sayed had Piker campaign for him in the primary. The published article is brief; fuller quotation from the same interview is carried in TheWrap's report.
- Author
- Alex Thompson
- Published
- Accessed
Reporting
The Hill: "Hasan Piker: US commits 'pound for pound' more terrorism than al Qaeda"
Excerpt
"Comparing America to al-Qaeda wasn't an accident — Piker has built a brand on anti-American hate."
About this source
The Hill's report of September 17, 2026, 1:44 PM ET, on backlash to Piker's Axios remarks from both Republicans and Democrats. It carries the fullest set of verbatim reactions found: Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-N.J.) on social media; the official Republicans account calling on every Democrat supported by Piker to condemn him; and political strategist and "The View" co-host Alyssa Farah Griffin saying Piker is "an absolute soundbite machine for Republican ads." It also reproduces Piker's own follow-up posts, including a second post beyond the one already recorded on this dossier, about elites terrorising the world while ordinary Americans foot the bill. The report notes the Pentagon has not taken responsibility for the Minab strike.
- Author
- Dominick Mastrangelo
- Published
- Accessed
Analysis
Zeteo: "Hasan Piker Says America Has Killed Lots of People. Donald Trump Agrees"
Excerpt
"Piker's comment, while obviously controversial, is objectively true."
About this source
Signed analysis piece co-bylined by Andrew Perez and Mehdi Hasan, founder of Zeteo, published September 17, 2026. It defends Piker's comparison as accurate on death tolls, citing Brown University's Costs of War estimate of 432,000 civilians killed by direct post-9/11 war violence in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen and Pakistan between 2001 and 2023, alongside Vietnam, Laos and Indonesia figures, and argues Axios's headline was calibrated for outrage. It draws a parallel to Trump's 2017 remark to Bill O'Reilly, "There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country's so innocent?" It also reports reactions from CNN commentator Scott Jennings and activist Shannon Watts, characterised in the authors' own terms. Note a factual variance on the Minab strike: the piece says the airstrikes killed 150 people including more than 100 children, whereas Piker says 140 schoolgirls; neither figure is established here, and the UN fact-finding mission's report is recorded separately on this dossier.
- Author
- Andrew Perez and Mehdi Hasan
- Published
- Accessed
Interview
CNN: "'I want Hasan Piker to go away!': Michigan congresswoman voices frustration after left-wing streamer's recent interview"
Relevant passage: 2:02 clip. 00:06–00:41: the Axios exchange played back, including Alex Thompson's question and Piker's answer; 00:43–01:00: CNN reports El-Sayed told Manu Raju before the clip published that he would not campaign with Piker in the general election, and asks whether he needs to do more to distance himself; 01:02–01:58: Rep. Debbie Dingell's answer.
Excerpt
"I'm so sick of talking about Hasan Piker and I want Hasan Piker to go away."
About this source
CNN political programming segment of September 17, 2026, in which Rep. Debbie Dingell of Michigan is asked whether Abdul El-Sayed needs to do more to distance himself from Hasan Piker after Piker's Axios interview. The segment separately reports that El-Sayed told CNN's Manu Raju, before the interview clip published, that he would not campaign with Piker in the general election, having done so in the primary. Quotations are taken from CNN's broadcast closed captions, which render proper nouns correctly but are delivered in rolling form. The CNN page is not accessible to this browser for legal reasons; the captions were retrieved from the video's own subtitle track.
- Author
- CNN
- Published
- Accessed
Original post
Hasan Piker says Axios "clickbaited" his answer
Excerpt
"i give a nuanced answer about acts of terror this admin has caused and they clickbait it."
About this source
First-party post from Hasan Piker's verified X account, posted September 17, 2026 in reply to the teaser clip Axios published from his interview on "The Axios Show." He accuses Axios of "farming the interview" and turning a nuanced answer into clickbait, and restates the substance by citing U.S. arming of al-Qaeda since 9/11 and the former commander who became president of Syria. Those historical characterisations are his. Fox News's "Outnumbered" quoted the post the same day.
- Author
- Hasan Piker
- Published
- Accessed
Original video
Fox News "Outnumbered": "Hasan Piker under fire after comparing US to al Qaeda"
Relevant passage: 11:20 clip. 00:00–00:35: Harris Faulkner's introduction; 01:21–01:40: extended clip of Piker's Axios answer; 01:46–01:54: Piker's post criticising the interview's presentation; 02:12–02:25: El-Sayed's statement read aloud; 03:03–04:35: Lara Trump; 04:48–06:24: Kennedy; 06:37 onward: Joey Jones.
Excerpt
"To say that America is anything like a terrorist organization is totally outrageous."
About this source
Segment from Fox News's "Outnumbered" broadcast September 17, 2026, hosted by Harris Faulkner with panellists Donna Rotunno, Lara Trump, Kennedy and Joey Jones, reacting to Hasan Piker's Axios interview. The segment plays a longer excerpt of Piker's answer than the Axios article carries, including his claim that the terror also has "dramatic consequences on the home front," and reports that Piker afterwards accused Axios of clickbaiting a nuanced answer. Faulkner's introduction states that Abdul El-Sayed, who brought Piker onto his Michigan primary campaign, is now distancing himself. Quotations were checked against both the broadcast closed captions and an independent transcription of the audio; the two disagree in places and only sentences on which they agree are quoted. The closed captions garble several proper nouns ("Rotondo" for Rotunno, "hooties" for Houthis, "bag Daddy" for Baghdadi).
- Author
- Fox News
- Published
- Accessed
Reporting
TheWrap: "Hasan Piker Stands by Calling America the 'Top Dog in Terrorism' in Contentious Interview"
Excerpt
"I do not agree with this statement, nor do I give much weight to the statements made by a social media streamer."
About this source
TheWrap report of September 17, 2026 carrying fuller quotation from Piker's Axios interview than the Axios article itself, including his citation of a U.S. missile strike on an elementary school in Minab, Iran, and his statement that the analysis "doesn't justify" the September 11 attacks. It also carries Abdul El-Sayed's full statement to Axios rejecting the comparison, and his separate Fox 2 Detroit debate remarks of September 15 on why he engages with Piker. It notes the Associated Press found evidence at least one U.S. missile struck the school, that the Trump administration has not released the Pentagon investigation's findings, and that the death toll remains unknown; the 140 figure is Piker's.
- Author
- A.J. Katz
- Published
- Accessed
Reporting
NPR: UN fact-finding mission on alleged US war crimes in the Iran war
Relevant passage: Finding on the Minab school strike
Excerpt
"the mission found reasonable grounds to believe the United States committed the war crime of launching indiscriminate attacks resulting in the loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects"
About this source
Report of the United Nations fact-finding mission on Iran, published 17 September 2026, the same day as Piker's interview. It bears directly on the strike he cites as the basis for his comparison, finding reasonable grounds to believe the United States conducted the two-tap strike on the Minab school and that this constituted a war crime. A finding of reasonable grounds is not a legal determination of guilt. The Pentagon has not released the findings of its own administrative review and no official death toll exists; reported tolls range from about 150 to 175 dead, and breakdowns published by Iranian outlets include boys, teachers and parents as well as girls.
- Published
- Accessed
Original post
Mike Rogers post calling on El-Sayed to condemn Piker
Excerpt
"BREAKING: Conman @AbdulElSayed's running mate Hasan Piker just said that America is worse than Al-Qaeda."
About this source
Mike Rogers's own post from his Senate campaign account on 17 September 2026, responding to Piker's Axios interview the same day. Secondary reporting consistently quotes only the first sentence and renders the live handle as "[Abdul El-Sayed's]"; the post continues "Abdul — enough is enough. Condemn Piker once and for all," which is the actual demand. X blocks automated retrieval of post pages, so authorship, date and text were confirmed through X's own embed endpoint; an editor should open the post before publication. This is distinct from Rogers's 10 September remarks at the Republican midterm convention in Dallas, which predate the interview and belong to the separate dossier on his September 11 accusation.
- Author
- Mike Rogers
- Published
- Accessed
Corrections
(0)
Corrections address errors in our reporting or labels. When a speaker changes their position, we add a separate statement and link it to the earlier one.
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